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I agree somewhat about Realtor.com, but it is the NAR and they at least hold the key to MLS. Its all the other guys lining up with their hand out & dollar signs in their eyes. This was posted before in your other blog, but Trulia already charges for featured listings and advertising. They take our info, outrank us in local search, then charge us to advertise. "Clever & insidious"? Do you really think they are doing a service, for the good of the public, or just out to make a buck (or several million)?

Thanks for quoting me, If your going to use my name in your blog post link to me please. ------------------------------------As to your post here, yes REALTOR.com stinks but there is no reason for us to pay to create another one. And a National IDX feed to any of those companies will not happen as long as people with half a brain are running the show, total bad idea. Our local MLS's are full of copyrighted materials that these outside companies have not right to, and our local MLS's should not be able to sell it to Google, Yahoo.. or even REALTOR.com. Jim

buysellhomesok, I could ask you the same thing; are you doing a service or just out to make a buck? You are out to do both, right? Furthermore, that's okay! It's okay that you are trying to make a buck and it's okay that Trulia is trying to make a buck. If they fail to meet the needs of consumers they will disappear. We all "make our living" from balancing service with profit. The only reason REALTOR.com annoyes me is that they are making a buck and also given an NAR-mandated monopoly. No one else is allowed to compete with them on even ground. That is unfair and far more exploitive than anything Trulia has done.

James, I added a link. I am happy to share the link love. Regarding "open access" to the IDX data; I know you think this is a stupid idea, but I'm telling you...it has already begun and it will eventually happen. It will happen because an "open system" favors consumers. Besides, you can talk to your sellers' about "copyrighted material" until you're blue in the face, but all I have to say is "James wants to limit the exposure your home receives" and you lose. I invite anyone to make an argument against "open IDX systems" that favors buyers or sellers.

Open IDX favors nobody but the big third party companies that in reality add nothing of value to the public, they just take in the end. There extra layer of nothing just gets in the way. As far as the copyrighted materials, we the members of the MLS's still own it, and until the DOJ manages to win a few law suits the materials will stay our hard earned property. If Trulia wants to create their own MLS ok, that is fine, but understand, we don't need them, but they need us. ----- Thanks for stirring this issue up further, it is good to get a healthy conversation about things like this going.

James, it's not up to you to determine what has value. As a REALTOR I could argue that you are nothing more than an "extra layer" in the real estate transaction. There are thousands of FSBO's who would also agree. Personally, I know that not to be the case, but you understand my point. What these 3rd-party companies bring to this process is consumer-oriented innovation. Ultimately, they have to court consumers. If they create a clumsy ad-laden web site, they will fail. However, if they create an innovative user-experience, then they will be rewarded. Either way, I still feel like REALTORS and their clients benefit from the increased exposure.

Actually it is up to me and the other REALTORs to determine value. There is a education program that is starting to move forward trying to show the REALTORs of our areas how using these third party companies is a waist of time for them. If Trulia were actually trying to do what they say they are doing, they would stop with the No-Follow tagging of the links to the REALTORs sites who do post info to Trulia, or place a No-follow tag on all the widgets that many of these less savvy REALTORs get from Trulia and place on their websites.

Too many safety issues for sellers to open things up like that. The point is more than just "be able to view listings". Besides and let's be honest here...We strive to work hard to ensure that customers are "right".You know, they know and everyone else knows that customers are in fact, not always "right". What they are is need need of service and information which they can already get. Rules vary state to state and brokers are licensed at the state level. I am certain that a reasonable state level MLS could be achieved, but, a national level MLS is not an answer that does not exist already. It's not new....We already have a national IDX it's called, google, yahoo, msn and all the other search engines. Wanna see all the homes for sale in Atlanta? Google it. How about New York City? google it. See, it's already there. Wanna put them all in one spot? Is that what you are saying? Show me how that adds value. It really doesn't and I am speaking from the heart of value and that's called conversion. Let's put 'em all on one website all around the world and I guarantee unique views to contacts will go down everytime you increase the number of homes listed for sale on the website. What you want is one website - or 500,000 websites each having every listing. Again, this already exists and it's more than 500,000. I undestand your point, but, this isn't about buying a Toyota Camry or a widget. It's about a home and every one is different.

Just to deviate for a moment, I spent a few minutes poking around in Trulia's HTML code. I must admit, those "nofollow" tags are annoying. I understand implementing those tags on web "comments". Those tags were invented to curtail "comment spam". But wrapping the REALTORS' web site link in those tags on their own property details' page is pretty crappy. Maybe our friend Rudy from Trulia will weigh in on this. Google has taken "don't be evil" as their own informal corporate motto. I know Trulia isn't Google, but this practice is one of those things that would personally make me feel dirty to do. It really is a slap in the face to the people who are helping you. Trulia this is a policy that really does need re-examined.

Ryan, when you say there are "too many safety issues" relating to an open IDX system; what do you mean? As you mention, most of this listing inventory is already out there and findable, eventually, using Google. What "safety issues" would an open system involve that do not already exist with the current system?

I think he is saying that many times with some of the MLS's like mine there is not any appointment center or anything like that. The agents are to direct contact the home owners for appointments with contact information given on the listing, along with other information about showing and in some cases homes will have combo lock boxes on them and the codes are published in the MLS. Also the material for a given listing is not owned by the MLS, it is owned by the listing agent and his/her brokerage and as such you are likely to have many more opt out situations which just complicates things further, Also as Ryan said, state law governs what happens in each of the states so what works on one side of a border and is ethical may be totally unethical on the other side of a border. For example New Jersey and Delaware are quite different in the way a REALTOR works with a client. Going national is not a good idea, and it does not serve the public's needs, after all you don't comparison shop a home in New Jersey with a home in Chicago.

Hi James, I suspected this is where those concerns were headed. Take another look though at my original open "national IDX standard" description; I chose my words very carefully. I said IDX, not MLS. I know there is a lot of information in the MLS that isn't in IDX. (Trust me, you're talking to a programmer who has dealt with plenty of MLS IDX data imports.) IDX is a controlled "public view" of the MLS. I would never propose opening the MLS, rather I'm proposing to make available the IDX information that has already been deemed "public" by the Assocation. The information you are describing isn't in the IDX anyway. That is private REALTOR to REALTOR information and should remain as such. All of your fears can be addressed in the IDX standard. Information that needs to remain private can remain private.

OK, but you remember the REALTORS own the MLS's They have all invested for years and years in the infrastructure, the governing bodies, getting the listings, ... What is our motivation to give, or sell our intellectual property to a National IDX??? The REALTORS who own the MLS's stand to gain nothing from that as far as I can see. It just creates more costs for us. Just like it would be very difficult or impossible to force a Donald Trump to give up a piece of prime property that he depends on, is should and will be impossible to force the REALTORs to give up or give access to our prime piece of property which we depend on, and fully own and support. If the DOJ manages to prevail in some sort of legal action to this respect, I suspect that the MLS's will be allowed to set prices for access to said information in which these companies will not want it.

I hate to use the "music analogy" again, but it works so well. You ask, what motivation do REALTORS have to give away our intellectual property. You have no motivation, none what-so-ever. The music industry had no motivation to start selling individual songs for 99 cents when they can rake in a ton of cash by forcing consumers to buy a $20 CD. In the end though, it wasn't for the music industry to decide. Consumers wanted more options and eventually (it took time) they got more options. This is purely a market driven phenomenon. If I were advising the music industry years ago I would have been saying "consumers want this and we must find a way to deliver it, if we don't take the lead here we will find ourselves left behind". Of course I would have encountered lots of people who said my suggestion was stupid and that we simply needed to fight against this trend and protect our industry's profits. In the end though, consumers won and they got more options. They will win here as well, although it may take a little time. I have been screaming to anyone who will listen that this is inevitable and that we (in the industry) need to take the lead so we don't get left behind.

In our case the consumers don't know what they want, other than to see the houses for sale. At least in my market they have that already without Trulia and the others. They have multiple IDX feeds covering the whole state, they have REALTOR.com, they have our own MLS GSMLS.com which has a public version for non REALTORs to visit any time they want. What do the consumers need Trulia for. The short answer in New Jersey is that they do not need Trulia, Homes.com, Homegain, HouseValues.com ... Those 4 and many others add no real value. All they are is the corporate version of leaches trying to suck what ever blood they can out of the REALTORS and adding nothing that the REALTORS cannot offer, and in many cases the REALTORs do offer it. The other companies are just me to's with their hands out, looking for their slice of the pie.

True I'm out to provide service and make a buck. What service does Trulia provide that I cannot? Pooling all the listings in the US together to dominate the SERPS and then charge me to be listed on their site? And as for "music analogy", I don't know of many customers stealing MLS information 'cause they don't want to pay for it. In most cases, a customer types in "city real estate" or whatever they're looking for, and finds a Realtor with everything they need, all the MLS listings in their area, and probably even mapping and other local real estate information. All Trulia et al want to do is be the middle man, increasing the number of clicks to contact a Realtor, and charge the Realtor for it. Great service. I guess I should stop working on my website and just get busy filling out the CC forms on Trulia etc. Better yet, know any industry that I can get information about from the service providers for free? Then I can use it to outrank them on all the SEs and then charge them for it.

I wonder how any consumer would be able to live without Trulia? If Trulia ceasts to exist is the the consumer really not going to be able to find in depth real estate information on the thousands of real estate websites and blogs that are found on google. Which we as Realtors work so hard in providing to our consumers. I wonder how the consumer ever made it before Trulia existed. Trulia has every right to make a buck as we do, but we as Realtors have the right not to contribute to a site that eventually will hurt us in the long run. You had made a statement to Jim "Besides, you can talk to your sellers' about "copyrighted material" until you're blue in the face, but all I have to say is "James wants to limit the exposure your home receives" and you lose." Yes that may be true now but when Trulia drops the bomb just like Realtor.com in which of course is going to happen, you think this is helping the consumer in the long run? Most Realtors will drop there listings and stop submitting to them because of the cost incurred in which we helped to support. Do you think that may passed on to consumer? Maybe-Maybe not. I learned my lesson with Realtor.com and refuse to pay their outrages fees for little in return. I am not going to make the same mistake with Trulia.

Yes you say Trulia strategy is ingenious you are correct they took the play book right from Realtor.com. But the point I believe Ryan is making is that we all as Realtors who rely on google and optimize our sites for top rankings are helping trulia rank higher and thus take away business from us. Bottom line point blank is we all are here to make money including Trulia. We have every right to post information to Trulia if we desire or not to. I am curious how did the consumer every get by before Trulia came around. I am sure if they google atlanta real estate in the past they would be able to find several informative real estate websites not to mention blogs with ALL the MLS listings. I have learned from the mistake I made with Realtor.com . I choose not to pay their outragous fees any longer and I am certainlty not falling into Trulia's trap.