Google removes credit for reciprocal link accumulation on real estate websites

[David Abernathy]

I keep reading that we are all trying to figure out why this occured...

my .02 without casting blame

So here at REW we have this huge thread about AA sites and Google.

One of the participants on this site (that has stated that he will not link his real estate friend/relatives site here) elects to post on Matt Cutts blog about the issues related to recips... a day or two later we all get hammered.

My belief -
1 - Google had decided that they did not like what AA was doing
2 - Someone from the REW forum brings REW to their attention
3 - Someone at Google reviews the situation
4 - Someone at Google decides that the REW sites should share with AA
5 - A few of the sites that are non-REW sites that have lots of links with REW sites and have state pages all get impacted. ( I have not found other sites that were impacted at the same time that do not meet this profile )

maybe I am wrong...I just have not seen anything to lead me to believe otherwise over the past several weeks.

[Jay Griffin]

One of the participants on this site (that has stated that he will not link his real estate friend/relatives site here) elects to post on Matt Cutts blog about the issues related to recips... a day or two later we all get hammered.

Wouldn't it be great if Google reacted to what they (or anybody) considered spam so quickly? This had to be in the works for more than one or two days from the time the post was made, IMO.

Look at this way. Mysolitaire.com was used as an example of excessive reciprocal linking in that post yet today they still rank very well and that is almost 3 weeks ago since that thread started. Who knows?

BTW, Terry... nice paper!

[Dan Connolly]

Look at this way. Mysolitaire.com was used as an example of excessive reciprocal linking in that post yet today they still rank very well and that is almost 3 weeks ago since that thread started. Who knows?

BTW, Terry... nice paper!

I read somewhere that Mysolitaire dropped initially but the backlinks generated from being featured on Matt's blog pushed it back up the serps, kind of like the Digg effect.

I agree, nice article Terry.

[Oppenheimer Group]

Thanks Ocean 30!

[David Abernathy]

John,

Glad to share - I would have prefered to find a different answer. I share what I perceive to be Morgan's perspective. This was a manual situation that is likely to be followed in the near future by an automated and more widespread implementation of the penalty. (edit: disclaimer - I have not discussed this with Morgan - just sharing what I have read in his post )

I just hope they impact the spammers like they have with us.

Dave

[Calculator]

Looks like this is another opportunity for me to appoligize again. If my post on MC's blog in any way resulted in REW sites being penalized I'm very sorry. Some great sites were penalized and I hope they make it back to the top shortly as they are some of the very best real estate sites around.

When I made that post I didn't believe Google would ever penalize sites so harshly for reciprocal links. I still don't believe they did. I'm increasingly confident the network effect of REW sites linking together is to blame for the penalties, not the state pages. Here's why:

1. Several REW sites with no state pages were penalized.

2. Hundreds or thousands of sites with state pages still continue to rank well.

3. As Jay points out, the site Matt Cutts tore apart on his blog, Mysolitaire.com, still ranks well. They are one of the worst and most public excessive reciprocal linkers. They even have realtor state pages and they are not even a realtor!

Do you think this might be excessive reciprocal linking, yowza!
http://www.mysolitaire.com/resources/default.asp

And they still rank #1 for on Google for "engagement rings"

[BrandonSternfield]

My belief -
1 - Google had decided that they did not like what AA was doing
2 - Someone from the REW forum brings REW to their attention
3 - Someone at Google reviews the situation
4 - Someone at Google decides that the REW sites should share with AA
5 - A few of the sites that are non-REW sites that have lots of links with REW sites and have state pages all get impacted. ( I have not found other sites that were impacted at the same time that do not meet this profile )

I'm sorry, but that sounds a little Lets-put-on-a-tin-foil-hat kind of idea. I mean, granted, there is a tiny tiny way it could be possible, yet like previously stated, 2-3 days to review all the REW sites that were hit? That had to be in the works longer then that.

[David Abernathy]

I'm sorry, but that sounds a little Lets-put-on-a-tin-foil-hat kind of idea. I mean, granted, there is a tiny tiny way it could be possible, yet like previously stated, 2-3 days to review all the REW sites that were hit? That had to be in the works longer then that.

How long do you really think it would take google to review the REW sites that all are interlinked with the state pages? I would think a couple folks at google could review and make decisions on the sites impacted in a few hours at most...maybe I give them to much credit.

It sure seems more than a little coincidence that a post was made and two days later we all start getting impacted. I have not read that others outside of this forums group were impacted at the same time as we all were?

[RonnieG]

My own personal (non-expert) opinions on the cause and effect of recent events:

1. Google and other SEs announced that they were going to do it, and have been devaluing simple reciprocal links for a long time, certainly with the 2006 Bigdaddy update, if not sooner. Identifying simple recips is pretty easy for the algos: Domain A links to Domain B and Domain B links back to Domain A. The devaluation of simple recip links is nothing new, is not limited to real estate sites, and is primarily algo driven.
2. In reaction to #1, enterprising SEOs and savvy webmasters changed their link building schemes to be more complex, non-reciprocal link networks. Domain A links to Domain B, Domain B links to Domain G, Domain G links to Domain X, and so on. No down-stream domain ever completes the chain by linking back to Domain A, so it can not even be detected by the SE algos as a circular link chain. This kind of unnatural and complex linking scheme among sites managed, hosted, and SEO'd by a common entity, AA or REW or any other vendor, is much more difficult for the SE algos to identify, so they got away with it for awhile.
3. Websites in networks participating in the complex interlinking schemes climbed fast in the SERPs, causing other sites to drop. Every other savvy and attentive webmaster would be researching the new top sites to see how they did it, especially if their own site has dropping in the SERPs. It wouldn't take a post on any forum or blog to raise the flag. In my own market, three REW sites could be found in most of the top 20 Google SERPs for popular RE terms recently, plus two or three AA sites. That alone would pique my curiosity. Noticing that REW and AA sites were getting great positions, my reaction could vary: If I was (as I still am) no better than 50+ for most popular RE terms, I would want to join them, and in a few months, perhaps be one more upstart site in the top SERPs. But if I was one of those already in the top SERPs for lots of search terms (which I have never been), and getting bumped down, I might, based on some research, question the SEs as to how these upstarts could possibly place better than my site, which has been on top for several years, has hundreds of simple reciprocal links, and appears to have three times more relevant content pages in the main index than theirs.
4. Whether as a result of algo improvements or jealous local webmaster reports, or some combination of both, as I suspect, the complex interlink schemes and some of its more prominent players were found out, and the SEs started to seriously penalize them. I believe we can count on this process continuing, forever, until those interlinking schemes are defeated. That will happen only when the SEs actually do find a way to discover and devalue the complex interlink schemes with algos, as they already have with recip links. In this, it does seem logical that common hosting IPs could play some part. But commonly hosted RE sites are not the only interlink networks that the SEs are after. They have been saying for some time that they are attempting to target and devalue all "unnatural" link schemes, regardless of the industry. How successful they will be at this in the long term is going to be interesting to observe.
5. In reaction to #4, many SEOs and webmasters have been taking down thousands of state pages and links, some of which may have been simple recips, already devalued, and some of which were the more complex interlinks. This has also significantly affected the PR/Trust ranking of sites that may not have had state pages themselves, but were the recipients of some of those links, so much of their own "link juice" evaporated, causing significant SERP declines. This secondary feedback loop will also continue, and we will continue to see sites affected that may not have obviously been participating in the interlink schemes, but were indirectly benefiting from them. If the SEs were really draconian and heavy handed, simply having a few links to/from the domains with the more serious violations and penalties could be enough to cause a "guilt by association" penalty.
6. Sites that appear to not be affected, yet, but still have state links pages, may have already had those links devalued last year if they were simple recips and not part of the complex interlinking schemes. Or, it may just be a matter of time before they are also discovered and devalued and/or penalized.
7. Sites that appear to have excessive recip links, like the one Matt Cutts posted about, and like some of the local RE sites I have reviewed in the past few days, but are still ranking well in their respective areas, probably have many other redeeming factors, like: many years of domain age, many hundreds or even thousands of relevant and well written content pages, well designed internal linking, lots of "natural" inbound links in addition to the obvious recips, and their external outbound links all fall into the simple recip category, which the SEs have devalued but not penalized.

[Phoenix]

Calc,

Why on earth would you give a live one way to mysolitaire.com here on this forum?