Deindexing - anyone know the truth?

[judyo]

Long post ahead:

Three of my sites have been hit by G's deindexing since Big Daddy. Although I am slowly getting pages back, I still don't seem to be getting any 3rd level pages back in the index (I think I have 1). This includes full content pages plus recip linking pages.

I've heard many different reasons and warnings such as:

1. It's a temporary glitch - they will come back
2. G was "cleaning up" and the pages will get reindexed again
3. Only sites with bad linking practices got deindexed (FALSE)!
4. If you still have PR your pages will get back in
5. If you still have PR, you won't have it anymore with the next update
6. If you have a hyphenated url there was a bug that caused problems

I'm sure I've heard a few more but you get the point.

What perplexes me is the fact that I've seen long-standing, "trusted" sites with good link set-ups getting deindexed while some questionable sites have not. It doesn't seem to make sense. My pages were split up with individual state pages & I'm finding some horrible links pages on other sites that are still in the index.

It almost seems like many sites with 3rd level pages were hit during the G update. My Oak Lawn Real Estate site was just being transferred to REW during the update & the Resource pages were created after the update. Therefore, these pages did not get deindexed.

I tried an experiment with my Cook County site. I created a Resource page but instead of making it a sub-page of my Resources Directory (which would have put it 3rd level), I created it on the 2nd level with a link from my Directory, which is also on the 2nd level. IOW, I just created a new page. That brand new page has been indexed. There's very little content on it.

Do we all wait patiently to see what happens? Do we stop making 3rd level pages and if we do, does this goof up our good site navigation or do search engines really care about that?

It isn't because I'm itching to trade links but I don't like having these deindexed pages. It could ruin the links I have traded if recip partners who didn't have their pages hit start getting rid of my links. That would negate a lot of work.

I'd like other's thoughts about this.

[VRI]

1. It's a temporary glitch - they will come back
2. G was "cleaning up" and the pages will get reindexed again
3. Only sites with bad linking practices got deindexed (FALSE)!
4. If you still have PR your pages will get back in
5. If you still have PR, you won't have it anymore with the next update
6. If you have a hyphenated url there was a bug that caused problems

IMO:
1. No, the pages that are lost in the index will remain so unless there is a change in the links to the page/site or if they were on the fringe.
2. I believe that some marginal pages will come back with little or no effort but there won't be a wholesale reinclusion.
3. Sites with suspect link patterns or lack of link strength got hit. (not necessarily bad practices but bad patterns)
4. The pr on the de-indexed pages is meaningless.
5. True, on the pages that are no longer in the index.
6. True, this has been verified by the people at Google.

[judyo]

I still don't believe it's just bad linking practices as all of my 3rd level pages got deindexed and many were just pure content pages, nothing to do with linking. This tells me that it has something to do with deeper pages, not necessarily linking - good or bad.

I have seen "trusted" seo webmasters from this forum with client sites that have been deindexed. I don't think I have bad link patterns nor do many of the sites that have been deindexed, so I truly don't buy that. Some REW sites are OK, some aren't. I realize that REW doesn't do the link exchanges on all of their sites, but I believe some of the sites they do handle links on are also deindexed.

And then there are sites out there with horrible, unorganized link pages that link to divorce lawyers and other unrelated stuff and they haven't been hit. That just doesn't make sense.

[dcsmith]

As a new person to all this, and having just had our entire site de-indexed with the exception of the index page, I would like to know what "unless there is a change in the links" or "suspect links" are? The design changed, the code went from tables with 150+ validation errors per page to css layout and every page validated but not a single link to or from those pages changed. Yet they are now all gone in google. I don't know when or what "Big Daddy" took place, but our site started being de-indexed about two weeks ago, and not a single page has come back yet.

As not to loose the point of the question what is a change in the links? and suspects links? and how do you fix them?

Dave

[VRI]

1. I still don't believe it's just bad linking practices as all of my 3rd level pages got deindexed and many were just pure content pages, nothing to do with linking. This tells me that it has something to do with deeper pages, not necessarily linking - good or bad.
2. I have seen "trusted" seo webmasters from this forum with client sites that have been deindexed. I don't think I have bad link patterns nor do many of the sites that have been deindexed, so I truly don't buy that.
3. Some REW sites are OK, some aren't. I realize that REW doesn't do the link exchanges on all of their sites, but I believe some of the sites they do handle links on are also deindexed.
4. And then there are sites out there with horrible, unorganized link pages that link to divorce lawyers and other unrelated stuff and they haven't been hit. That just doesn't make sense.

Again, this is just what I'm seeing with the sites I know the best (mine and my competitors):
1. Your third level pages are just further from the flow. If the flow was good, they're good. If not, they're not. It's the pattern of the site and it's links that determines the flow, not the content of the page.
2. A. Everybody that's honest that has more than a few sites will tell you... some got hit and some got helped. Not me though (oops, I was lying)
B. Trust is gained in really looking at the what, when, why and what now over the long haul. The deindexing is no different, IMO, to any of the other big changes with them (Google, that is). The good ones are so because they get results now and adapt with the engines. (tis the nature of the beast)
3. I've got a decent variation of sites that I work with and I can see a pattern in mine. The sites that had an advertising budget are faring better than those with just recips and directory submissions. The serps still look good even for the sites that have lost pages, so I sure aint stressing yet.
4. I don't think the search engines care at all about the organization of your link pages, it's more to benefit by linking from a relevant page, though they are more seriously considering who you're linking (it'll all get weeded out) to and are there any prominant patterns that might be discounted.

The beauty of the REW sites, IMO, is the beauty/function (very professional, makes everything easier). It's the standard, I might have a copy if I could get a few new sites link pages indexed.

[VRI]

1. "unless there is a change in the links"
2. "suspect links" are?
3. The design changed, the code went from tables with 150+ validation errors per page to css layout and every page validated but not a single link to or from those pages changed. Yet they are now all gone in google.
4. I don't know when or what "Big Daddy" took place, but our site started being de-indexed about two weeks ago, and not a single page has come back yet.

1. The quality/strength of links to the site or how it's channeled on site.
2. IMO, a huge spike in your link pattern: almost all recips, almost all three ways, almost all purchased etc.
3. Valid code has almost nothing to do with indexing/serps.
4. It's been going on for awhile and it might be for a bit.

[Memphis]

You would have to confirm this possibility with an "expert".

Google probably saw the change as a major overhaul by getting rid of the tables. Which should work out for you in the long run. Hopefully wiht a little time you will move upward and higher than before.

As a new person to all this, and having just had our entire site de-indexed with the exception of the index page, I would like to know what "unless there is a change in the links" or "suspect links" are? The design changed, the code went from tables with 150+ validation errors per page to css layout and every page validated but not a single link to or from those pages changed. Yet they are now all gone in google. I don't know when or what "Big Daddy" took place, but our site started being de-indexed about two weeks ago, and not a single page has come back yet.

As not to loose the point of the question what is a change in the links? and suspects links? and how do you fix them?

Dave

[judyo]

I have never had a spike in my linking pattern and I have a good combo of pure outbound links, directory links (only a couple purchased, & I mean maybe 1 or 2) & I'm picky with my recip partners.

As far as my internal site structure, I build a "parent" page & any other pages related to it become a sub-page. So I believe my site structure is as good as it gets. Home page down to next level of pages down to sub-pages relating to the 2nd level pages. I don't believe I have any 4th level pages.

If I belonged to link farms or had a majority of purchased links or linked to casinos & drug companies & other unrelated sites or if I had orphaned pages on my site or used any kind of black hat seo I wouldn't be so frustrated. None of these apply, as I'm sure they don't apply to many other sites that have been deindexed.

Most of us agree that REW sites are seo friendly. If we don't have bad linking practices nor do we utilize black hat seo, then why are some REW sites getting deindexed?

Here's my situation. My Cook County REW site was set up prior to Big Daddy. It's the one that got deindexed (3rd level pages & my on-site blog). My Oak Lawn site was transferred over to REW during Big Daddy. The 3rd level pages did not get added until after the BD update. Those pages are now indexed & cached. They weren't touched because they weren't in existence until after Big Daddy. Hmmmmm.

[dcsmith]

Just to throw in a bit of good new. Two pages came back this morning. We now have three pages indexed. The ones back aren't the ones I would chose, the contactus and mortgage pages, but at least the bleeding seems to have stopped.

Dave

[judyo]

That's great news, Dave. Gives ya some hope. I'm keeping a weekly tab on my pages. It does keep going up every week by an average of around 10 pages but it seems like it's been my on-site blog & listings getting reindexed.

Hey, I just checked again & I got over 10 more pages. Mostly listings but I got at least one of my resource pages back. I guess patience is what's needed.